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Fox MUD  |  Fox MUD  |  General Discussion (Moderators: Victoria, Sygis)  |  Foci price increase « previous next »
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Author Topic: Foci price increase  (Read 5351 times)
dizao
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« on: March 02, 2010, 08:07:07 PM »

Why?

I know Vic had mentioned this back in like december and even then I couldn't understand why it needed to be done.

This game already has a pretty low player base and new players don't come and stick around too often.  The vast majority of new characters who've become Lords in the amount of time I've been playing have been other people who've already played this game for years.  To these people gaining QP is pretty easy.  Newbies have a much more difficult time.  If it weren't for the two recent reverse auctions I'd not have some of the better gear I have now nor would I have my soul chill or restoration foci.  Honestly, I've farmed K'sah, Multihued and Ezy for a few weeks off and on and have yet to receive a QP from them.  Gold farming for QP is also slow, even if you know all the best areas to clear for pure gold drops, and since you're not quad40 trading in for QP is a moot point.  That leaves very few options for attaining QP.  That leaves random trivia quests and the occasional Immortal ran quest as the only reliable way of gaining QP and Immortal quests tend to be skewed towards the people with years upon years of experience anyways.  I received over 3mil gold for my paltry 125 auction tickets I purchased.  I'd love to know how much money (an thus, QP) was awarded to the person with the most tickets purchased.

Blasting and Healing are a huge portion of the game, and any character who isn't a thief prime is going to want to get foci for their highest level healing/damaging spell as soon as possible.  Yes, I understand how big of an increase in power gaining these items is, but isn't that the point of achieving Lord status?  I don't know how many years foci have been in place, but they'd been under this system for this long already and it's not like it has broken the game.  Now new people, who are already at a huge disadvantage compared to veteran players, will have to pay twice as much for the same foci these veterans have had for a while.

In most games, and really in most things in life, the initial improvement is always relatively quick.  After that spike is when things begin to get harder dramatically.  I'm not intimately familiar with the commission system, but I am aware that it takes well over 40 QP to make a high-powered weapon.  Which if you're looking at a linear progression of character power, then the change to the focus prices make sense.  If you want to look at it from the standpoint of bringing people to the game and keeping them in the game, it doesn't make much sense to set a barrier to their progression when they're already at such huge disadvantages in the first place.  Finding equipment of an appropriate level is very difficult when starting out the first time, you're basically stuck at the mercy of kind individuals to give you equipment because new players won't know where it drops and it is likely to have a very low drop rate to go along with it.

I guess my point is this.  What was wrong with allowing players to relatively cheaply (cheaply enough that it is at least *possible* to do without being a quad40 already) gain a couple items to improve their characters viability early and then be able to put their effort into improvements in other areas (skill caps, custom equipment).
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Krush
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2010, 03:51:28 AM »

Well, I do understand your issues and I probably should have mentioned something about the raffles before now but I was kind of lulled by the fact that everyone was getting a pretty good haul despite the fact that some where being given Fort Knox on a platter.  While I'm sure this wasn't the case, it kinda looks like the powers that be were looking at their mortal's inventories to see what to make the next raffle for so that they could cash in.  These quests were sharply skewed towards those who have been and have been able to stockpile equipment for years and they probably put far too much gold in those people's hands. I'm not sure stockpiling is something we should encourage.  I know more than just Dizao and I have similar opinions on this. That being said, I enjoyed them, they just have huge balance issues in my opinion. You have to understand that not everyone has a dozen or more pieces of lord gear lying around collecting dust.

The final grind to quad 40 is a rough one to make yourself do and we need more high end areas to keep people interested enough to make that push and stick around to play afterward but there is no doubt that it has it's advantages as far as qp goes.

As far as the focus pricing goes, I also was kinda apprehensive about it giving an advantage to established players but I would like to see focus prices closer reflect their value. Even at double the cost, foci are probably still a bargain. Couldn't foci just be a massively cheap upgrade for getting your first few qp? I'd be interested in seeing what others think about this. I'm still not completely closed to the idea even though I think the new prices make more sense in the long run. Truthfully, I don't expect the new prices will affect a greater number of people than the number who already have foci in their possession in the foreseeable future so we have to ask ourselves if this is something that is worth doing or just something that will irritate the 2 players we might get this year when they discover that everyone else bought cheap foci. Unfair games soon loose players and to these new players it will seem everyone had a big advantage over them.  I'd also be open to inflicting qp debt on those that already have foci  Shocked but honestly that wouldn't affect some of the big raffle winners that much  Roll Eyes and would hurt the low to mid experienced players with foci more than the well established ones. It might also be hard to track down what was given away in a quest. So basically, I'd say Dizao has some valid points, some that are at least worth discussion.
       
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Than
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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2010, 07:53:31 AM »

If you really consider that prior to recent past qp were much harder to come by then the price increase is sort of a combination between keeping up with inflation and balancing things.  Until recently you could not trade gold for qp and there were not nearly as many quests/events/whatever that allowed you to get qp.  So for old timers buying foci at 7-8 qp was very similar to buying them at the new prices now.  The ones who have really gotten a great deal are the players like yourself (Dizao) and Ampersand that have come in during the high earnings/low price window that has existed for the past year or so. 

Foci are a huge step in power and they are not just supposed to be items you automatically get shortly after lording.  They should be a goal that folks work toward for a while.  Considering that you can swap foci around to all your players, buying a single focus is extremely helpful.  The move to make prices higher is not an effort to impede anybody, but rather to keep things interesting for a little longer by giving an intermediate goal between quad 40 and Lording.

As far as the raffle goes, I had no idea what it was going to be for or that it was even going to happen until I saw it posted on the board like everyone else.  I won the ticket count and every ticket I put in increased the price per ticket that everyone got.  Also, about 30% of my tickets were fresh pops.  Anybody else could have worked their butt off and earned more tickets for themselves.  I only saw one other guy out there really trying to pop stuff.  The payout ended up being higher than I (or anybody else) expected and I know future raffles will be adjusted.


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ampersand
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« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2010, 04:46:51 PM »

While I understand some of the comments here I have to say that the amount of qps available to new Lords are pretty small.  I have had the advantage of being loaned some pretty good gear and so spend quite a bit of time on the mud.  That being said if it was not for the raffle I would not have been able to buy a foci even at the lower prices.  I have gotten 2 plat bars (tasks) and one quest point (thanks ezy) and don't expect to see more than 2 or 3 more before quad 40.  Basically what this seems to mean is that foci are basically quad gear if they cost double what they are now.  I am not saying that they are not worth it, even at the new prices they are.  I think maybe this shouldn't be seen as filler between Lord and quad.  Then again I am a newb and don't know my way around so I could be completely off base, but that is my $.002

Amp
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dizao
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« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2010, 10:07:36 PM »

I think Ampersand put it much more precisely than I did.  With how difficult obtaining QPs are outside of Immortal ran quests for people who are not already quad40, getting a focus before you're quad40 is going to be nearly impossible under the new price system.  Before the first auction I had just under 6qp worth of coins/trade bars saved up.  This was essentially all of the money that I had earned through trivia quests, Immortal ran quests, grinding to lord level (on 2 characters, Dizao and Hayabusa), and completing the viper boots quest.  After the first auction I used the money I received from it to purchase my soul chill focus and then most of what was left over to buy the Lich skull, Sorahl's robe, and Scimitar of Ruin I have now (i later was able to farm my own scimitar).  Now I understand that those are essentially pinnacle items that have no equals outside of commisioned equipment, but if it weren't for the reverse auction I'd most likely would have spent another month farming before getting my soul chill focus alone.  The second auction is what then allowed me to purchase my restoration focus.

In any event, it took me plenty of work to get those items and would have taken exponentially more work to get them if it hadn't of been for the reverse auction quests.  So even under the old pricing I'd hardly call them "automatic" for achieving lord level.  They were an effort, but possible.

Under this new pricing, unless reverse auctions (or quests in general) become a monthly occurrence, it's highly unlikely that any brand new player will ever receive a greater focus before reaching quad40.

If that is the way immortals agree it should be, then that's all there is to it.   
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Sygis
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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2010, 12:25:57 AM »

Been up 2nd night all night coding on Fox, so this is too brief, but it beats another day of my not responding (sorry).

- everybody who plays matters to us, very much including the 'fun' of the game
- we honestly try really hard to be fair, open, honest, and show no favoritism
- we're all human, but I think we run a very decent game/world
- we welcome comments, queries, questions, considerations, complaints, and the like
- more specific points I'll try to get back too asap ... rl is very busy for me atm

I'm all for progress, as long as we avoid, at least overall/as much as possible, "taking back what was given" e.g. if we were to give out 10,000 QPs, realize our mistake, then strip all QPs from the pfiles -- that would suck, and we always seek to avoid that trend whereever possible.  So please bear with us as we try hard to get QPs out there and at the same time make sure they're worth having.

(more later after I get some sleep Wink
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